Wednesday, April 30, 2008

Polygamy Question

We have all been hearing a lot about the polygamist group in Texas that was recently raided by the authorities.

I truly don’t care what they do until it comes to children. The idea of a little girl, as young as 14, being forced to marry an older man repulses me.

But here’s the question that keeps bugging me and maybe you can help me out here. Why didn’t the authorities remove all the adult men from the ranch and leave the children there with their mothers until this whole thing can be straightened out? It would have been much less stressful and frightening for the little kids if they could have stayed in familiar surroundings with their mothers. There could have been some authorities on the site to see that everything was kept in order for however long it takes to decide what happens next.

As bad as the situation at the ranch may have been, it seems to me the little kids have suffered the most since the raid, and some of that suffering seems to me could have been prevented…at least for a little while.


Blogger the walking man said...

Not only would that have been best, PoP, it would have been easier to deliver the logistical support for the 500 who are now spread all over the TX foster care system.

The only answer I can think of is :This is government at work, mindless drones fulfilling the wishes of a system meant to obfuscate as much as possible. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

Yet in the microcosm that it is they are all treated as individual cases, which is why the mindless system took them down this route. Doesn't make sense to anyone that thinks but it did to government.

go figure.



April 30, 2008 2:39 AM  
Blogger Sparky Duck said...

Probably because one of those men was the owners of the land and was not yet inplicated somehow. Not that makes much sense, but ya think they would let one of the women have ownership?

April 30, 2008 4:19 AM  
Blogger FranIAm said...

As much as I hate to say this - I think it is because the women and children were moved out, for good or ill, for their protection.

Unless they can arrest the men on the appropriate charges they can't remove them as easily. To bring them in on charges too light or simple would undo the case.

I can't say I completely agree or like it, but when I think that someone could come just remove me from my house because of their suspicion (that whole pesky innocent until proven guilty thang) sends shivers up my spine.

And that actually does happen as we know, but still.

It is the downside of law but I think when it is actually used well, it works.

Gitmo is when it does not work.

As for the polygamy thing, I have given this a lot of thought lately.

The thing with the girls is horrifying indeed and I hate that.

But honestly, if adults want to marry in that way, I have begun to wonder if it is any of my business or not.

I am still not sure exactly what I think except that the adults have to be of a consenting age.

April 30, 2008 4:32 AM  
Blogger Sherry said...

i too think it was for their protection. some of those mothers were underage to begin with and all of them believe what they live to have come from the mouth of god.

god can "tell" you to say or do anything.

better they were away from there.

beside who knows what hidden room or secret bunkers they may have?

i don't care what consenting adults do but how can you consent if you've been groomed since birth for something?

April 30, 2008 5:48 AM  
Anonymous Joe the Troll said...

I have to admit that I haven't pored all over the news reports, and so I can't claim to know every little thing about it, but it seems to me that these kids were in the care of both their mothers and fathers when all the alleged abuse was going on. If that is the case, and the mothers did nothing to protect the children, then they are accomplices, are they not?

I mean, they can be colored as victims as well, and perhaps they ARE victims as well (at least some of them), but it seems to me that the bottom line is that these children could not depend on their mothers to protect them from this system because their mothers were PART of the system. They let their "religious beliefs" (read "stupid superstitions") take precedence over the welfare of their children, it seems to me, so I really have no problem with these children being taken from them and given at least a momentary look at reality outside of that shitty little patch of Texas. I HAVE read that some of this concern for the children is actually concern that losing them will impede their mothers'
ascensions into their little polygamous Heaven, and frankly, that sounds just too damn bad to me. If you can't get into Heaven without letting your MASTERS knock up your 14 year old daughter,
I really can't sympathize with you, nor do I want to.

This and the shitheads that get away with letting children die of manageable illnesses while they pray for healing (it happens over and over) are the situations that make me believe that if any American freedom goes to far, it is freedom of religion. I hope to someday see a country where real life is given at least the SAME consideration that we tend to reserve for other people's comforting fantasies.

And if anyone thinks I am intolerant of the religions of others, please rest assured that I hold equal disdain for the one I was raised with.

April 30, 2008 6:07 AM  
Blogger mommanator said...

great question, great responses.
I too feel the moms are as guilty as the hubby although probably brainwashed as much as the kiddos. Where is the sanity in all of this! It scares me quite honestly. I just pray those kids are being taken care of properly, to Hell with the adults!

April 30, 2008 6:53 AM  
Blogger Dean Wormer said...

What a mess. I think they just removed the children from every adult in their lives until they could figure out who was and wasn't abusing them.

April 30, 2008 8:02 AM  
Blogger The Minstrel Boy said...

it was only the children who have remained in state custody. the relationships and family connections in this are so tightly twisted that they have had to order the DNA testing to attempt to figure out who is related to whom. (answer: they're all closely related so add incest into the mix).

over half of the girls between the ages of 13 and 17 are pregnant or have children. the median separation in age between mothers and first children is 14.

this whole cult was geared to the sexual abuse of children.

April 30, 2008 8:18 AM  
Blogger Dr. Know said...

This is a sick story I have read about with revulsion. I believe the motivation for separating the children from their mothers is that they are all essentially brainwashed. It is a hardcore cult. The few women that complained or tried to escape were either doped up and placed into the "mental ward" or disposed of. Are you aware of the high-temp furnaces found on the property? This cult maintained their own infrastructure of medical care, agriculture, etc. in order to keep outsiders as far away as possible. There was no TV, no media, no contact with the outside world. As an earlier commenter pointed out, DNA testing has shown that much of their linage stretches back to two founders. They are inbred so severely that medical conditions not seen in centuries are cropping up.

Sick Perverted Fucks. And sicker still - it is looking like some local Texas authorities had foreknowledge of the goings on in this compound.

I'm going to go pound on something now...

April 30, 2008 9:01 AM  
Blogger Pagan Sphinx said...

I think they did the right thing in removing the girls from the situation entirely. There is no way for child protective workers to sort out the details when the children are in the care of mothers who have bought into these rituals.

I've not seen polygamy but as a teacher, I've seen countless cases of child abuse; some quite severe. In many cases, mothers were either terrified or complacent about the abuse of their children.

But the mothers too may be victims and in need of their own protection.

Sorry I did not have time to read each previous comment thoroughly and I may have simply echoed what others have said.


April 30, 2008 10:03 AM  
Blogger Targa said...

They were removed because the charges were being investigated. I think Habeus Corpus is involved in this instance. There are no charges, yet, so the quickest (not smartest) and legally efficient method is to remove the children.

That will be $500.00. :)

April 30, 2008 12:20 PM  
Blogger Targa said...

Oops. I mean the "allegations were being investigated"....

April 30, 2008 12:36 PM  
Blogger Mike said...

I wondered the same thing myself. Not sure if there were any legal grounds to remove the men at the time. Child Protective Services can always claim the best interest of the child and move in and take them. Hell, they could to that to any of us. It is one of the few instances where you are guilty until proven innocent.

April 30, 2008 12:58 PM  
Blogger Weaseldog said...

I think that the religious factor had some bearing to.

Texas is a Baptist state. From that perspective, the children were in a Satanic cult.

Of course, from the perspective of the children, Baptists are Satanists.

Regardless, the whole thing is a mess.

April 30, 2008 1:57 PM  
Blogger Forty Paws said...

I also assume that legally, the state had no authority to remove the men. But within hours of CPS beginning the removal of the women and children, it became clear that the youngest children could not identify their own mothers because of the many wives living in one house. And then, the women began coaching the children to confuse CPS workers which is why the judge ordered the children separated from the women.

Probably the worst part of this whole ordeal will be that the several hundred lawyers representing the children will manage to have the children sent back to the cult, CPS will be blamed for everything that went wrong, more CPS workers will leave their jobs, and the children will continue to be abused. And some may end up dying. It happens far too often in Texas. The Texas CPS system is broke, underfunded, understaffed, and children are abused and die too frequently in Texas because of this. And now it suddenly has over 400 more caseloads added to it.

May 01, 2008 7:12 AM  
Blogger Joe Tornatore said...

I cannot fathom more than one wife. Why would anyone do that to themselves? lol That is all I got to say about that.

May 02, 2008 7:46 PM  
Blogger TaraDharma said...

There's a vague memory from my teen years in the 1970s when feminist were talking about setting a curfew on all men...because women were not safe walking around outside at night. Seems liek this logic shoulda worked here, removing the men. But we are far far FAR from a perfect world!

May 04, 2008 9:40 PM  

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